In this powerful episode of The Healing Journey, Dr. Kate Oland explores the complex emotional, social, and physiological relationships we form with food. Through a deeply candid conversation with Dr. Stephanie Sprout, listeners follow her lifelong journey from early disordered eating and societal pressures to a place of compassion, nourishment, and body neutrality—highlighted by the transformative experiences of partnership and motherhood. The episode also features licensed dietitian Kelly Houston, who demystifies what dietitians really do and offers insight into how nutrition counseling can support everything from hormonal health to digestive concerns, all while reducing the shame and overwhelm that so often accompanies food choices. Together, these conversations invite listeners to rethink their own food stories and consider how healing begins with understanding, curiosity, and kindness toward the body.
Episode 2 Show Notes:
Kelly Houston MS, RDN, LD
Confidence Nutrition Counseling
Confidence Nutrition Counseling on Facebook
Confidence Nutrition Counseling on Instagram
Dr. Stephanie Sprout
About Plymouth Pro-Bono PT Clinic
Omnivores Dilemma by Michael Pollan (book)
Show Transcript:
Dr. Kate Oland: Welcome to episode two of The Healing Journey. I am Dr. Kate Oland, and today we are going to continue our series on healing and food. One of my favorite, favorite subject matters. So, you know, over the years I have continued to pursue my passion of food, wanting to combine. Enjoyment of [00:01:00] pleasurable eating experiences while also balancing nourishing habits.
Now, how I define a healthy food has definitely changed over the years. I am a product of the no fat, low, fat, fat diet, and man, was I wrong about that one? You know, back in the nineties everything was low fat. Now I know high sugar, and that was supposed to be quote unquote healthy. It is not too ironic that that fad was followed by the protein only fad because we were running around eating empty carbohydrates for so long.
Then we had to flip the script and go to the all protein diets, which. Led to some other health issues as well. Um, now that's not exactly the bandwagon I jumped on, um, but I certainly was a [00:02:00] part of that. No fat, low fat diet for a long time. And it's just no wonder that in my young teen and early adulthood that I was exhausted.
I was anemic and I was not fueling my body properly. But over the years I explored different ways of eating. Uh, and I think I was in my early thirties. It was about after my second child was born, when I had a job as a. Wellness coach, and that is where I feel like I actually started to eat like a healthy person.
That's where I learned how to implement the habits of balancing macros. And when I say macros, I'm referring to the protein, carbs, and fats in my food. But I also learned about the importance of micronutrients as well. And when I say that, I mean. Vitamins and minerals that are imperative for [00:03:00] our body to function at their op, optimal performance to function as optimally as possible.
So that was the stage in my life where I read the formative book, the Omnivores Dilemma, that forever changed the way I think about not only how I eat. But my food sources as well, like physically, where did that food come from and how was it grown or raised? And was it grown, raised, or was it synthesized in a lab?
And that is where my mind was blown was that so many of the foods that were in my everyday life maybe aren't foods after all, but products. What they, some, some products claim to be food products. If you look at individually wrapped cheeses, they are quote cheese [00:04:00] products. They cannot say that they are cheese, but they are a cheese product or a dairy product completely made in a lab.
Not with, you know, the things you would think that would go into cheese. So anyways, at that wellness coach job, that is where I first met my friend Dr. Stephanie Sprout. We were colleagues only for about a year, but we have stayed good friends for the past 12, despite the fact that we're no longer work buddies and we live halfway across the country from each other.
So through that job, and ever since we have had many discussions regarding how we as individuals have to strive to balance the social, emotional, and psychological aspects of how we manage our diets. So in a moment you will hear from the incredible Dr. Sprout, but first [00:05:00] a word from supporters of this project.
Have you ever had something wrong with your body but you weren't sure who to turn to for help? Most of us start by calling our primary doctor, and while they're great at diagnosing and prescribing or referring you to another physician, sometimes that's just not enough. Especially when you're dealing with complex or chronic issues.
And the truth is healthcare has changed. You now have direct access to incredible allied health professionals, but many people don't even know who to look for or where to begin. That's why I created Thrive Everywhere. A new online platform designed to help you connect with the right healthcare professionals for your [00:06:00] needs.
What makes Thrive unique is our patented search filters, which allow you to search by what you do know. You can search using your symptoms, a diagnosis or the type of services that you are searching for. We are just getting started at Thrive everywhere. So if we don't have providers listed in your area yet, please check back soon.
We are actively launching, growing and adding more clinicians every day. Our goal is to make it easier than ever for you to find personal care that truly supports your healing.
So my guest today is Dr. Stephanie Sprout, a doctor of physical therapy and an associate clinical professor at Plymouth State University. Stephanie and I first met in 2013 when we were both working at a private practice as health coaches. Together we helped clients create calorie budgets. Design effective and [00:07:00] safe workouts and navigate the many changes that come with building healthier lifestyles.
I'm so grateful to welcome her today to talk about the emotional and social aspects of food. Stephanie, welcome to The Healing Journey.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Great. Thank you so much for having me today, Kate.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah, this is gonna be fun. So before we dive in, I would love for you to just tell us a little bit about yourself, how you got to this point.
I do think it's important for the audience to know the lens through which you are speaking about your experiences.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Absolutely. So I have been a licensed DPT Doctor of Physical Therapy for 16, 17 years now, and I have practiced in just about every 16 from the ICU at large trauma hospitals to neuro outpatient to health and well to different health and wellness and kind of.
More fitness based startups. Pilates, and I [00:08:00] started teaching six years, seven years ago and fell in love. And then this wonderful opportunity at Plymouth State opened up for me. That was a perfect combination of clinical practice and academia, and I have happily been here ever since, teaching the next generations of.
DPTs, hopefully with my own little flavor of compassion and empathy and understanding for a slightly more holistic approach. So
Dr. Kate Oland: I love that. I love that. It sounds like you have found a dream job.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Most days. Yes,
Dr. Kate Oland: yes. Most days. And you know, it's funny, you and I have met, it's been 12 years ago now at that job.
Uh, we were both part-time and we have both kind of gone off into our own ways, but we've landed in a similar space, me with my private practice, but I balanced that out doing adjunct work at St. Louis University. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but I love the balance of. Treating, uh, [00:09:00] patients and doing patient care while at the same time sharing my 20 years of experience with future healthcare professionals.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Yeah, absolutely. I'm in a, a really unique position where I run an on-campus clinic that my students provide pro bono physical therapy services through. So we see anywhere between 25 and 60 patient visits a week in our community. Wow. So. I live in this small community. This is where I wanted to start a family and a life.
And I have a, a almost 3-year-old son and I get to teach and practice essentially in the community and walk down the street. And I had a friend visiting once and they, they said, are, are you like the mayor of this town? No. But we've, we just, our clinic has such a reach out into the community and I get to be part of that and I get to foster those interactions.
So it's the perfect balance of that clinical practice, which so many. PTs love and, and the academia piece. And, and I think without that clinical component, [00:10:00] you know, I would need, I would need to scratch that itch somehow. Um, so this clinic really allows me to keep it all in one place, which is really beautiful.
Dr. Kate Oland: Oh, that sounds awesome. And I think we will need to keep some, or we will need to get some information about your clinic in the show notes. Absolutely. So if anyone listening, absolutely. Yeah. If this calls to you, if anyone's listening and they think they might need some physical therapy services, but haven't really figured out how to make that happen for themselves, we will have that information
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: and we can do some remote work.
We've done a little bit of that. Uh, so you're listening and you are in New Hampshire. That makes life easier com commuting's a possibility. But yeah, we've, we've gotten creative in the past and it's worked pretty well.
Dr. Kate Oland: Awesome. I'm so glad that we're able to let people know about that. Well, Ms. Stephanie, today we are talking about healing and food.
Yeah. And yeah, listen, where do we start? You know, when we were working together, you know, some of these beautiful conversations just kind of came up about the socioeconomic emotional aspect about [00:11:00] food.
Why don't you share a little bit about your journey of healing with food?
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: So I started my first food journal when I was 11, and my mom and I were doing Weight Watchers together. Mm-hmm. Because I had just gotten told by my dance class that my body was not consistent with the aesthetic of the rest of the group, so I would not be moving up into the next group.
Yeah. Yeah. 11. That was a great, great lesson in, uh, what society wanted me to look like and how I was falling short every day.
Dr. Kate Oland: Oh, girl.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: And yeah, I, uh, I started the, I know the points. I had a log of my activity and my food that I still have upstairs in my house. And at 11 I was in a bigger body than I am today.
Kelly Houston: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: And. Went through navigating [00:12:00] that all through high school and college with the emotional ups and downs and the hormonal changes, and getting to a point where I couldn't, I just, I didn't feel good. Right. I would be, I would be in the store and I had this very vivid memory being in an h and m in Albany, New York, my senior year in college, and I went in and I tried on.
The size fourteens, and I saw my body in the mirror as I'm trying to squeeze my butt into these, mm-hmm. Into these pants and I wouldn't fit. And I had this moment of just hating myself and feeling like I didn't know what to do. I was a college athlete, I was a vegetarian. I was in the gym five days a week, just killing myself, trying to be healthy and.
I felt like my body had just betrayed me because I thought I was doing everything right. Yeah. I was pre pt, I, I was, I was doing it [00:13:00] all right. And when I went to graduate school, I started making slightly different food choices and was living with someone who wasn't a vegetarian and I was walking a lot but didn't have.
The money for a gym membership, so I wasn't running and the treadmills and, and doing the elliptical for hours and hours, and I started very slowly changing my body, but it took a long time and it never felt easy and it never felt like I had the tools and
Dr. Kate Oland: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I wanna stop for a second.
So, when you were in college, that's what gonna be in the late nineties, early two thousands?
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: I graduated from, um, yeah, in two, yeah. Early two thousands. So like 2004
Dr. Kate Oland: range. So let, so let's, let's go back to that time. I, so I also was grappling with food choices in similar times of life as you Yep. And I can tell you that coming out of the non-fat, no [00:14:00] fat, low fat era.
Yeah. I think that was causing confusion within a lot of people about how to be quote unquote healthy.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Absolutely. I was having Caesar salad with fat-free dressing and croutons, and I would put Zdi on top because. It was fat free, so, so I was having just carbs on top of carbs. On top of carbs. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. And I was starving all of the time. Mm-hmm. I was falling asleep in class. They worked me up for narcolepsy 'cause I would fall asleep in my classes after lunch, not realizing what my pancreas was doing. Right. Because I just essentially ate a plate of carbohydrates.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. Without that, without that protein in there, you were never feeling satisfied.
No protein,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: no fat. Fat was the, the enemy, right? Mm-hmm. No protein, no fat. And I was just being a vegetarian, right? 'cause cholesterol was scary. Mm-hmm. Right? Dietary cholesterol was said to be so scary. And I had a family history of high cholesterol. I had high cholesterol, [00:15:00] right? So I thought I was again doing everything right and I was just.
It must be me, right?
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: I must be doing something wrong. Maybe it's my body.
Dr. Kate Oland: Right? And I remember back in 99, I was a senior in high school, I donated blood and, but you know, I got my cholesterol results back.
Kelly Houston: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kate Oland: And they were through the roof uhhuh, and I thought I was being so quote unquote healthy.
I look back, I think it's all the sugar I was eating through the carbohydrates, then that
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: chronic inflammation, right? Mm-hmm. From that, those blood sugar spikes, right? Yes. And you create this metabolic syndrome where your body. Is in this constant state of inflammation and crisis because it's being flooded with sugar constantly.
Now. It was sugar from, you know, not su, not, you know, what you think of is sugar. I wasn't right. I slammed back coke like right. I wasn't eating cookies all day, but my body was essentially acting like I was just flooding it with, with sugar and candy constantly. Even though I thought I was doing everything right.
'cause fat was bad, right? Yeah. Cholesterol, dietary cholesterol was bad.
Dr. Kate Oland: Of [00:16:00] course, which we now know that, you know, there's a little bit of wiggle room and there's a lot of wiggle room. Yeah. We don't have to necessarily be medicating everybody who has high cholesterol. Those are all things, listen, those are definitely topics I wanna tackle,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: right?
Yeah. And we're not necessarily here to talk about the dietary piece, nor am I the expert on that. Um, but I am definitely an expert in what can still happen to, I consider myself a relatively well educated human and. I was just so flooded with societal expectations and misinformation and the Special K diet.
Really? Two, two bowls of cereal with skim milk.
Dr. Kate Oland: Oh my goodness. I know, I remember that. This is
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: everything. Watching the sitcoms in high school when the actresses were, you know, I guarantee their BMI was under 18 and a half. Not that BMI is, it's problematic in its own right, but still like watching these people.
Being told that was what was healthy and that's what was okay. And then not having the information to [00:17:00] actually be healthy.
Dr. Kate Oland: Right. So let's go back to your, a little bit of your story. You talked about getting into grad school, how you kind of abandoned the cardio. Yeah. And noticed. Positive changes as physical therapists.
I think we should talk about this for a second. So, Stephanie, what do you think happened at that point in time to help you get, uh, what, what do you think happened like within your body to help you get some of the changes you were looking for?
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Well, I think my stress levels, my cortisol, I don't have any labs to back this up and mm-hmm.
Grad school and of itself was a stressful time, but I think, mm-hmm. I wasn't constantly stressing my body out with this steady state exercise and I was just, I walked, I literally walked uphill both ways to school, right. Just like your grandparents tell you. Because I went over Bunker Hill and then I went down Bunker Hill and I turned around.
So I was walking, you know, five, six miles a day just carrying my bag to school. 'cause. Why pay for the bus when you can walk? Grad school's expensive, right? Yeah. And, and you got [00:18:00] exercise. Yeah. And I, and I couldn't afford alcohol, so that helped, right? Mm-hmm. Cutting down some of the, the sugar there. But in general, it was just really shifting.
I wasn't beating my body up. I wasn't punishing it. And every day. And I was just moving. Yeah. I was just being a human moving through the world and it didn't happen overnight, but things started to shift and to, to feel better.
Dr. Kate Oland: You also mentioned at that time that you started living with someone who was not a vegetarian.
Did that influence your choices?
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: It did. It did. Um, she didn't have, she grew up in the very same era as I did, but there was more cheese in our life. There was more meat. Um, there were more cans of tuna fish, so there was more protein and fat that got added in the, the meal started shifting a little bit, uh, which was helpful.
Uh, you were no
Dr. Kate Oland: longer falling asleep in class, I suspect.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: I mean, okay. Grad school was dense, but No. Yeah, yeah. No, I think [00:19:00] I just, the energy, everything started to feel a little bit better and I started to again, learn and start to trust myself a little bit more because now I'm, you know, getting this doctorate in pt, I felt.
More empowered and more able to seek out knowledge that wasn't just mainstream television and news I knew was coming into the understanding of where to look for information, how to read research articles, how to navigate through that very muddy water just a little bit, right? Mm-hmm. And, and to get away from what was being presented to me, um, by, by other people, and to actually find the information for myself a little bit more.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. Yeah, there is, listen, so much information out there, it can be hard to sort through for sure.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kate Oland: For sure. So you got through PT school, um, and then I, I think it was not very long after. I think you'd been probably two years,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: three years, yeah.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. After you graduated that you and I met. And then, so let me paint the picture of our work environment.
So we were working [00:20:00] in, I, I mean, I had just, I learned so much from this experience. I had this job for about a year,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: um, and I was there for two and a half and I went full-time. Well, I would say I was full-time there.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. Yeah. So I was there part-time, um, maybe eight to 10 hours a week. But man, I was all in.
I loved it. I learned so much. I learned from you. I learned from our boss. Um, I was learning about. How to take care of myself. I had to be a patient first. Same in order to be able to work there. And I think that was a really cool model. Um, I will say, so that was maybe the second time though, when I was going through that process the second time in my life that I had started food tracking or food logs.
Mm-hmm. Man, that was, I. I remember we talked about the aha moment. We each had our own, and then our clients would talk about their aha moments. My aha moment was after I started becoming a client to be, uh, an employee there. I started, I was weighing my food. Yeah. And I got my little container that [00:21:00] I, you know, I was doing home care, so I had to always pack my lunch.
I had my little container scooped, my trail mix, and I went to measure it and I went, oh my God. What I thought was. One serving what I thought, you know, I'd just been eating as a serving for however long. I thought I was getting 150 calories, was more like four servings. So I was getting, you know, 600 calories, 800
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: calories of trio.
Dr. Kate Oland: Right. It adds up real quick. That was my aha moment, was logging and tracking. Do you remember your aha moment?
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: I feel like it might've been with pasta.
Dr. Kate Oland: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Because even now, so. We'll talk about the, the now me. Mm-hmm. Which is very different from the, the, at that point me, yes. But I do feel like at one point, I, I weighed out what an actual 200 calorie serving of pasta was, which is, you know mm-hmm.
I now have larger servings than that often. But seeing, I was like, this is 10 noodles. What the, right at this moment of, I was just imagining these bowls [00:22:00] of pasta that I would eat in college. But it was fat free. So like in my head it didn't count. Right. And yeah, and I'm looking at this going, holy shit, right?
Yeah. It was, I think Costa for me like that, that feels like that's what my aha moment was.
Dr. Kate Oland: I'll never forget that I was new. I was newly working with clients, so trying to sound like I knew what I was doing, but learning as I go. And I remember looking up to you and going, Hey Stephanie, are there calories and alcohol?
You did that. That's exactly what you did. You laughed at me. I was like, oh, oh. I was such a supportive coworker. It's okay. No, it's fine. And I mean, oh, when I started looking at the calories and alcohol
mm-hmm.
Man, you know, that one beer a day that I thought I deserved, at the end of the day, it was gonna help me.
At the time I was nursing, it was gonna help me produce milk. Oh man. There's good, there's, there's a whole lot of other, uh, it's a pork chop and a bottle is what I've heard some people say, you know,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: a pork chop in a bottle. Okay, maybe
Dr. Kate Oland: that's a Midwest saying
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: it might [00:23:00] be sounds.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. Sound like a Midwest that does.
No. So I mean, I was learning so much and trying to apply it and I did learn great information.
Mm-hmm.
But something that I took away from this experience, you know, in hindsight we're looking back like 12 years, right? Yeah. When I look back on that time, I started that job, I think Connor, uh, I, my maternity leave wasn't even done.
So, I mean, Connor was less than three months old when I started that job. Yeah. And. Nursing. I, I chose to nurse, I was very fortunate. I was easily able to nurse my babies and my first baby. I nursed him over a year, but Connor, I, I lost, started to lose my milk early. I mean, he was maybe nine or maybe not even nine or 10 months.
And now retrospectively looking at that calorie budget Yep. That not only I was following for myself, but was being told to prescribe to other people. Mm-hmm. Wow. Like, I think, yeah. You know, there we, you, [00:24:00] there's a slippery slope there of prescribing something that has such a huge impact on a human's life.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: I, yeah. I have a lot of feelings about where I was and what I encourage people to do. Mm-hmm. The science that maybe wasn't there to back it up, especially for women, especially for lactating women.
Kelly Houston: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: It, it was, um, it was a bit of a one size fits all equation based on literature that was based on men.
Dr. Kate Oland: That was based on experience that our boss kind of had because he was in the study, but he was the study that wasn't inducting the study. He was, I look back on this and I just remember thinking it was so valid, but retrospectively. Right. Well, you went
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: through this, right? Like you went through this as a, as a, as a participant, and learned that the strategies and.
And there [00:25:00] was decent research about calorie restriction and there were mice at Stanford and cancer, like there was a lot of research at that time coming out about calorie restriction and how good it was for you. I mean, the research was everywhere, but if you dug a little bit deeper, which I've done since.
It's not a one size fits all, and we know that. Mm-hmm. And so much of these health and wellness recommendations are often one size fits all with participants. That definitely didn't reflect the two of us where we were with our hormones. Where you were. Mm-hmm. Especially being in that, you know, as somebody who's also, I, I breastfed my son for two years and one month and we stopped because it made sense for our family to stop.
Not because I wasn't able to continue physically. And I was not eating 1400 calories a day. I
Dr. Kate Oland: was I bet you weren't
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: a solid 25. A solid 25 if I had to guess. Um, and how much? [00:26:00]
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. And how about, so about what, what do you think your calories calorie budget was? Back in the day when we were working together,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: um, when I was trying to lose it was 14 to 1450 and maintenance was like 17.
Dr. Kate Oland: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Now, now you're looking at maintaining and you think you're probably at a 2,500 calorie. I probably,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: I probably fluctuate between 18 and 25. Yeah. Depending on the day and what's for dinner and, and
Dr. Kate Oland: that, and that's okay to fluctuate. Yeah. It's isn't fine that normal life.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: So yeah. To, to give a little bit, to give a little bit more to, to everyone listening, so I.
I got down to, I'm five eight. At my lowest I was 126 pounds. I had a body fat, um, via caliber, which is not perfect. It wasn't a DEXA scan that was estimated to be around 18% body [00:27:00] fat. Wow. And I wasn't able to know if I, I was on, uh, hormonal birth control. So I wasn't sure, but I guarantee I would've probably been in a position to not be menstruating.
Um. The world told me that I was perfect, you know, and it was very rewarding and very validating, um, especially a girl that was in a bigger body that looked in the mirror and had that core memory of sitting down on the floor at h and m crying because the biggest size in the store wouldn't fit. And for the first time, first 14 was
Dr. Kate Oland: the biggest size in that store.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: In h and m? Yeah.
Dr. Kate Oland: All right. That's a whole nother conversation. Sorry. Well,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: but remember, come on, 12 to 14 was what they all went up to. And then if you had to get higher than that, you would have to, to jump to the the different stores. Mm.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. I, wow. Wow.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: I know. Yeah. Oh, it's a whole thing. Yeah. Um, you know, so that, so that was, and that, that tracking taught me so much, it taught me so much about food.
Mm-hmm. It gave me such an amazing education, but it [00:28:00] also fostered what I now recognize as a pretty significant disordered eating pattern. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And looking back, realizing that I've had disordered eating since I was probably 11, 10. 11. Yeah. And that my mind, every minute of every day, intrusive thoughts around food, around weights, around what I looked like around my body.
Should I eat this? Should I not eat this? No. If you can just wait a little bit longer. How, I mean, it just, it, it just was exhaust. It never stopped. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. Mm-hmm. It's exhausting. So it is, like you said, it's a very slippery slope because I learned so much, but that hyperfocus and restriction really fostered this.
In, in my opinion now, very unhealthy relationship with food. Because it was it, the joy got taken out of it, right? Yes, it was. It was. One of the things that we talked about a lot in this job was food is fuel [00:29:00] and the emotional piece got taken out of it. The community piece got taken out of it. The enjoyment of.
Going out for, for appetizers and a barbecue and a Christmas party and not, I mean, we talked about strategies for navigating the holidays and Christmas parties, and it was always about restriction.
Dr. Kate Oland: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Never about freedom and space and trust in your body and, and flipping that script, it was always about control.
It was always about restriction. It was always about how do I be strong enough? So when, then when you fail, you feel fail, right? You feel terrible about yourself. And it was a very interesting dynamic and it, and it, it worked. My cholesterol got way better. I got super strong. I put on tons of lean muscle mass.
'cause we were, we were lifting heavy weights, which we know that is one. We know the research is unequivocal about that, right? Mm-hmm. There's not much in health and fitness that we can say is unequivocally [00:30:00] like, this is good for everyone. Yes, but lifting heavy things is good
Dr. Kate Oland: for our bodies. Lifting heavy things in a safe
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Yes,
Dr. Kate Oland: uh, mechanically safe manner.
Yes. We're, we're, we're PTs. We have to, we to make sure Right. We're, you
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: have to say it right. We have to say it right. But, you know, picking up heavy things and putting them back down is, uh, it's good for our bodies. Um, or it's good for our, like we know that. So there was a lot of good that came out of that, but it then led into.
A really challenging phase of my, my life where the food noise was just deafening. Yeah, absolutely deafening.
Dr. Kate Oland: I suspect that you are, um, hitting some cords with some of our listeners. 'cause it, it, I identify with all of this so much myself. Yeah, yeah. So walk me through then, you know, you've come, you've, you, that was a while back.
So walk me through the healing journey. You and your relationship with food.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: So I met my husband [00:31:00] almost five year, my now husband, almost five years ago. And he tells a story all the time. At the end of our first date, we went for a hike. Mm-hmm. And he, we had our cars there and he was living in a van at the, uh, time that we still have as our second home.
And he's like, Hey. Do you want dessert? I've got, I've got dark chocolate like in the van, like, do you wanna like have some dessert and talk a little more? And I was like, no, I don't really like chocolate.
Dr. Kate Oland: You liar. Which, which is
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: a complete lie. It's complete bullshit. I love chocolate. But I had convinced myself to the point that at the end of the best first date, like in the history of the world, no offense to any other partner I've ever had that might listen to this, but like mm-hmm.
I said no to chocolate with this beautiful, wonderful, kind man. Because I had convinced myself that I couldn't let go of control even for a second. Mm-hmm. And to me that was the, the a holy aha moment. That was
Dr. Kate Oland: aha moment. [00:32:00] Yeah. Yeah. You know,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: and, and my partner, like he created a space for me to be vulnerable for the first time and to say I'm really scared if my body gets.
Bigger. Again, I'm terrified of what that's going to do and what I'm going to look like, and he was created such a inclusive and safe space. There were days when I would cry eating dinner because I didn't track it. I, I knew I needed to eat more and I would be crying and there were days when I would, I. It, it was really, really hard.
Yeah. And he, he held space for that without judgment, and I felt safe for the first time that my body didn't define me. Wow. And yeah. It was huge. And when we decided that we wanted to try to start a family, my OB, who I love, point blank, she was like, you need to put on 10 pounds or your old ass will get pregnant, is what she, your old [00:33:00] ass will never get because I was 37,
Dr. Kate Oland: 38, which is considered a geriatric pregnancy.
Oh, oh
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: yeah.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: And. That was the moment of, it's not about me anymore. And suddenly all of the reasons that I felt like I needed to be skinny didn't matter. And I gained 10 pounds in three months and my old, I just ate, I just ate food. Oh, that's easy. Right? Shocking. I just ate a little more food. I didn't drink it.
I, I wasn't eating at McDonald's every day, like I ate a really healthy diet. Mm-hmm. But I just like. Stop being scared of avocados and cheese. And I was eating full fat yogurt.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yes.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: And I wasn't going crazy. I mean, I was still probably only putting 23, 20 'cause I know every calorie count ever. 'cause I, I can't not think about it.
Like I, I can tell you exactly what 60 calories the hummus looks like. I can tell you exactly how many calories are in a medium sized avocado. And those things are, I remember
Dr. Kate Oland: asking you, how many tortilla chips will give me 150 calories? And [00:34:00] you were like 17. Tell me
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: about Yep. See. A miracle. I mean, maybe depends on the size, but Yeah.
Like it's just, we're in there, there forever.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Um, and so yeah, it was, it was really interesting. And then I got, my old ass got pregnant. Mm-hmm. Right away. Yeah. And, and then I gained 13 pounds in my first trimester and I was losing my mind. 'cause everything says gain two to three, right. Two to 3, 2, 3, 4 pounds in your first trimester.
Mm-hmm. And I just went mm-hmm.
Dr. Kate Oland: But you needed, you needed to probably still, you're still probably a small frame for pregnancy
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: mean? Yes, but honestly my body doesn't, didn't trust me. Mm-hmm. It was like I had no idea when you're gonna, I, I literally, this is the conversation I think it was having with me.
Mm-hmm. If I could anthropomorphize, you know, the parts of my body that I'm not in control of.
Dr. Kate Oland: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: And I was like, I don't trust you. So we are gonna take these calories and we're gonna hold on tight 'cause you've been starving us for a decade. Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:00] So suddenly there was an abundance and it held tight.
Yeah. And I just trusted the process and I was like, you know what? If I gain a hundred pounds, I gain a hundred pounds. Like I'm eating healthy, I'm eating the right number of calories to support this pregnancy, trust. Trust the system. And then in my second trimester, I only gained a few, right? And it evened out.
And I had an incredibly healthy pregnancy. I gained a very appropriate amount of weight and. Everything went beautifully. And even post though, I lost the weight very quickly just 'cause that's what my body did and I got down. Well
Dr. Kate Oland: you're also a very, you're one of the most active people that I know.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Yeah.
But again, that, that voice came back. Oh, look at you. Good job mama. You look right. That intrusive thought around the body. Right.
Dr. Kate Oland: Did you ever watch the show Physical? It's on, I think Apple TV. No. Um, I'm, so for anyone listening, and I, gosh, I hope I can talk about shows. I can talk, it's my podcast. I can talk about other shows.
I [00:36:00] don't know the rules. Sure, sure. So, uh, it's on Apple tv. It's, uh, called Physical, and I thought it was, you know, it was someone who has also recovered from several different types of eating disorders. I thought they portrayed the intrusive thoughts in a very realistic way.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Oh, okay. So, yeah. Yeah. So
Dr. Kate Oland: I, I it might be an interesting watch for you.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: So, oh, they are, they are. Really interesting.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. And those, and they can come outta nowhere. It's like, I feel like no matter how hard I work at it, um, I don't wanna sound like it's never ending, but every now and then I still get that little Yeah. Thought, whatever. You're not good enough, you're fat, you're whatever.
You, you are this or you are not enough.
Mm-hmm.
Or you are not that. Yeah. In whatever form it comes in, you know, feeling guilty for eating the cake or the whatever. Man. It, it's still there, but it, it does, I think it, for me, it has lessened over time.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Mine is, I [00:37:00] can't tell you the last time that I felt bad about food.
Dr. Kate Oland: That is a beautiful thing. Yeah. That's a beautiful thing.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Yeah. My kids almost three.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: And you know, every now and then, like I, my body fluctuates changes. Mm-hmm. But, and I have moments where I don't love it, but when it comes to food specifically, I would say it's probably been two years.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: maybe two and a half years since I have thought in a way of like, oh man, I really shouldn't be eating that.
Or, oh man, I need to, it's just quiet because it's not. I'm 41 now, right. I have a kid. I'm set. I've like, I've kind of gotten to the, I don't, I'm probably not allowed to swear on this, but like, you don't give an FI don't give an F. Like I'm at the No Fs. Yes. Thank stage of my life and yes. A and I threw away Kate.
I threw away my scale, not my food scale. That's been gone for a long [00:38:00] time. Good. I threw away my scale and I now say no at the doctor's office unless they need a specific weight to dose medication, which they never do. Anybody who's listening, um, if you can get them within 10 pounds, there's literally not a medication that I can think of.
There might be you wanna talk to your anesthesiologist, but you don't need to know exactly how much you weigh. Right. And if it is triggering for you, you can say, no. Hey, can we get a weight? And I'm like, I am in here for my No. I was like, I'm actually, and I just say, I'm actually in recovery from disordered eating and I would prefer not to.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: And they look at, they're like, oh, okay. Yeah. And no one says anything.
Dr. Kate Oland: I have been very surprised at how people respond because I've done, I haven't done the, no, I've gotten on the scale and closed my eyes and said, I don't wanna know. It's healthier for me not to keep track. Now, not all the time. Not all the time.
I, um, you know, as I've entered per menopause, welcome to the party. Sometime soon, maybe, I don't know. Anyways, uh, we'll see. Who [00:39:00] knows? Yeah. It's something that I, I, I keep a, uh, I want my fingers on the pulse. Yeah. Because so many things are changing. I'm, you know, so I do. So yes, if it's triggering and you. Um, that triggers you.
You should, you have the right to say no. You have the right to say, I don't want to know if you need this information. Please don't read it out loud to me. Um, and I have done that. Uh, but I, I, I, I've found myself to be in a healthier place where I do kind of manage and, uh, just every now and then, it's not every day like it used to be.
Yeah. I'm not writing it down and I'm not mm-hmm. You know, all those things. Um, it's definitely a healthier balance for me.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Yeah. And, and I. I was like, oh, these are a little bit snug. And I was at my friend's house and I hopped on her scale, and I was like,
Dr. Kate Oland: Hmm,
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: all right. I haven't been weightlifting as much as I should, so that's probably not all muscle that I've gained.
All right, check yourself, you know? And there's just that like, but it was like a very observational, [00:40:00] dispassionate, just like, oh, I'm up a little bit higher than I thought I was. Okay.
Dr. Kate Oland: And bring up an
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: important, oh, go ahead. Oh no, please.
Dr. Kate Oland: Oh yeah. You bring up an important point, uh, for anyone who's listening.
Um, you know, Stephanie subtly made this point that about getting on the scale and the, uh, how much muscle weighs compared to how much fat, weighs and fat, hold on. Oh, now, now I'm gonna stumble over my words. Muscle weighs. So in terms
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: of, in terms of volume, right? Yes. So we're thinking of volume, so like a pound of muscle and a pound of fat, right?
Are weight, oh pound. But in terms of how much space they take up in your body, right? Mm-hmm. So you can weigh 150 pounds of muscle. Looks very different than 150 pounds of fat in terms of like body size. So the fact that my clothes were feeling a little bit snugger and I knew I probably wasn't growing muscle, right?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kate Oland: Like.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: So yeah, if anybody out there wants to gain five pounds of muscle, go, yes, go do it. Yes, we all support that weight gain for sure. Um, but that's, but there's also
Dr. Kate Oland: [00:41:00] also a point in time where when you're trying to lose weight, I think a lot of people get stuck when that scale, scale gets stuck.
There's a point, if you've changed your diet and you're exercising, traditionally there's gonna be a quick five to 10 pounds. Then it gets a little stagnant. And what I was, I think this is an important point. What we would tell our clients is, well, you may not be losing weight at the moment, but it's not about, not all about the scale.
You are likely converting that fat into muscle and that muscle is heavier than that fat
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: volumetrically. Yeah.
Dr. Kate Oland: Volume. Thank you. Thank you. That's all. We keep the science. We gotta stay the science. Thank you. I got you. Um, yeah.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Yeah. So that's, that's part of it. And I think you. Two, when we're losing weight as humans, if you're not strength training, right, you will be losing muscle along with that fa.
Mm-hmm. And that's an important piece of it. So everyone's so excited to see the muscle, I mean, to see that the numbers go down on the scale, but one, do they really need to? Right? Let's be honest. But two, if you are in that journey, you know, keeping that. [00:42:00] Pe you know, I was so scared to, to lift because I didn't wanna get big, I didn't wanna get bulky.
Right? Not what happens, right? Nope. Like I'm the most, like the slenderest ever when I'm lifting weights, right? It's, but there is all of these misconceptions about muscle, right? Um
Dr. Kate Oland: mm-hmm. Well, there's masculine or feminine, et cetera. Whole nother that, that's a whole nother episode. I'm write that down.
Right. Write
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: that down for another episode. Idea. But, but it is, and I think that with me, you know, I, I get on this, I got on the scale at her house, you know, a month later, and I was like, okay, cool. That feels a little bit better. But having that neutrality, that bo, you know, like we, we talked so much about positivity.
Dr. Kate Oland: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: I'm working towards that and I'm having my moments and I've got my, you know, my first day of school outfit on with my blazer and you know, like, I feel great. I feel great today. I walked, I walked to school and I felt awesome and I, I felt really comfortable in my skin, but most days I just shoot for being, not having my skin or my body be the most [00:43:00] interesting or even a thing that I think about.
Yeah. And that to me has been really freeing. And I think being a mom has been a huge part of that because mm-hmm. Now it's, you know, my body is in relation to this other person now that I grew, that I fed. And it's a lot easier to love it and all of its iterations. And when I go into plank and I have my little belly, I'm like, yes.
I love that you were in there, right? Yeah. And that's been, for me, motherhood has been a huge, huge part of that. You know, just my supportive partner. Giving me the space to feel safe. But then the motherhood journey has been a massive part of that healing. Where we're, I feel like we're taught as women, especially, you know, that we are very defined by what we look like right by our bodies.
And it was really wonderful to [00:44:00] redefine my body in the eyes of my kid. Right in the eyes of my son and in the, it's, it's no longer a thing for people to look at, but it's the thing that creates, the thing that does. And I think, you know, for all of the women that choose not to, don't want to, can't, um, go on that journey, like there are so many other ways to create that shift in your body is.
Is a vessel for being an ultra marathon or your body is a vessel for being an artist. Your body's a vessel for your mind, for your heart, you know, for your voice, and finding those other ways to define it. For me, motherhood was such a big thing that it cut out all the other negativity and noise. But yeah, that was like the culmination of, of the healing journey was it wasn't about me.
My body needed to be strong enough and healthy enough and have enough calories in it to support. Growing and feeding a child and it wasn't about me and taking that [00:45:00] pressure off that it wasn't about me anymore, actually gave me the space for it to kind of become me.
Dr. Kate Oland: That's right. So that's powerful.
That's a powerful testimony. And it reminded me of one of my favorite definitions of the body, you know? And now I teach anatomy and physiology, so we're not talking academic. Definition, but
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: no origins and insertions and innovation. No,
Dr. Kate Oland: that's not what I'm talking about. Okay. Um, I was working with my coach, uh, Laura Burke of Laura Burke coaching.
She's incredible. I'll put a link to her if that calls to you. But when I was speaking with her one day, she said, your body is just a costume for your soul.
Your body is just a costume for your soul. Oh, I love that. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That helps me reframe some things right there, right there. So it sounds like you have been able to do some healing and find some more joy in food. Uh, can you talk about [00:46:00] that? Where do you, what are your favorite joyful foods or, um, rituals in your home or your life?
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Oh,
I mean, I, it sounds so silly, but. Not worrying about it, not seeing it as the enemy. I, yes, I made a big a salad for lunch with three hard boiled eggs and some feta cheese, and I was like, ah, I have an avocado that's ready. Send it. I have no idea. I, I have no idea how many calories. I could probably reverse engineer it, but I didn't even think about it and I was like, I have avocados that wanna be eaten.
That's exciting, right? Yeah. I go to the farm stand. I, we buy a quarter cow from a good friend of mine every year, and I eat tons of beef. My cholesterol's never been better. I get eggs from a local farm that I order every other week and we get full fat, local yogurt. Mm-hmm. So for me, it's celebrating food and the people in my [00:47:00] community that grow it and, and thinking about those relationships with my community.
Mm-hmm. And my wheat comes from a local farm and I bake now Kate. Holy crap. I usually, I put sugar in my food sometimes, right?
Dr. Kate Oland: Ooh. I know. Getting
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: fancy, right? Like I made any muffins, but like the wheat is from a local. So I think my relationship with food now is, is a way to commune with my community. And I cook with my son a lot, you know, he.
He uses a knife with, with supervision, but like mm-hmm. He can use a knife.
Dr. Kate Oland: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Um, and cooking and preparing food and just not like stopping that generational trauma around good foods and bad foods with him. Yes. Yes. You know, we don't, we have ice cream sometimes. Like, he didn't have much sugar before.
He was two. I had some rules about that just in studying his palette. 'cause I've been, um, you know, I did a lot of deep, deep dives on food and how to mm-hmm. Present food to kids. 'cause I didn't [00:48:00] want him to grow up with the same messaging that I grew up. And I was like, I am starting from day one with this, this messaging.
So it's really, for me, it's about not creating those stories in my, my child's mind and not having some foods be good and some foods be bad. And this is, you know, the rhetoric, it just gets soaped. Damaging of around like the good foods and the bad foods and like, oh, I'm gonna cheat. You know, this is my cheat day.
Mm-hmm. And I'm like, you're just a human fueling your body and enjoying your food and like, stop it. Stop it with the, the language around that, you know?
Dr. Kate Oland: Yes. It sounds like you, I think that's
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: a piece of, it
Dr. Kate Oland: sounds like you have built a life and created habits that are both delicious and nutritious.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Yeah.
We eat pretty well.
Dr. Kate Oland: But I haven't bought
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: anything that is fat free or low fat in like 10 years. And it's beautiful.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah, it is a beautiful thing. Well, listen, [00:49:00] Stephanie Sprout, this has been so much fun to have this conversation. I, it's been so fun to reconnect and I really appreciate you giving us your time today.
Dr. Stephanie Sprout: Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Kate Oland: Thank you. So as I am launching this podcast, it has forced me to look back over my 20 years of being a physical therapist and really reflect on how many incredible people I have met through my work, people I would've never met otherwise. And I'm talking about clients, patients, and colleagues, and Stephanie. And I, we only worked together for one year and I was part-time back then, but man, those few hours every week together really created a bond while we were working together, not just to help improve our client's health, but our own physical and mental health.
As well, but I have also met many other professionals [00:50:00] who are equally as passionate about using their education to help their clients as well. And in this next segment, you'll meet my new friend Kelly Houston, a licensed dietician. And if you're like me, you've probably wondered what a dietician actually does, and for many of us.
Food feels surrounded by mystery. Things that we have to do every day can be kind of mysterious, full of mixed messages, confusing labels, and unfortunately, all too often some guilt and shame. So in this next segment, I will sit down with Kelly Houston of Confidence Nutrition Counseling to pull back that curtain and bring some clarity to the conversation around food.
So Kelly will share how she helps clients reduce the negative emotions that often come with food choices, [00:51:00] and we will explore a wide range of diagnoses. Things I did not realize. That a dietician could support, including some surprising hormonally related conditions that you may not expect a dietician to address Behind every food choice, there can be a story.
Are you ready to rewrite yours? This is a fun, educational and eye-opening conversation that you won't wanna miss. But first, a quick word from our sponsor.
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[00:53:00] [00:54:00] [00:55:00][00:56:00] [00:57:00][00:58:00] [00:59:00][01:00:00] [01:01:00][01:02:00] [01:03:00][01:04:00] [01:05:00][01:06:00] [01:07:00][01:08:00] [01:09:00][01:10:00] [01:11:00][01:12:00] [01:13:00][01:14:00] [01:15:00][01:16:00] [01:17:00][01:18:00] [01:19:00][01:20:00] [01:21:00][01:22:00] [01:23:00][01:24:00] [01:25:00][01:26:00] Kelly Houston, welcome to the Healing Journey. [01:27:00] Hello. Happy to be here. Great. Well, before we do anything else, can you tell our listeners a little bit more about yourself in particular, um, the work and the work that went into getting the job that you do? Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Um, I'm a registered dietician.
Kelly Houston: I've been in outpatient practice for, uh, just over 10 years, and I recently opened my own practice, confidence Nutrition Counseling. Congratulations, and I'm very congratulations. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's very exciting. Um, basically I want my clients to have confidence in the food that they're eating. I want them to feel like they can achieve their health goals without having to, you know, suffer through excessively restrictive diets.
I want them to be able to enjoy meals with friends and family and actually like, live life without having to worry about the food part of it. Um, really I just want them to, you know, be healthy. Reduce their shame around food and just feel well in their bodies. I love [01:28:00] all of that. Um, so confidence counseling, is that what you said the name of the business?
Dr. Kate Oland: Confidence. Nutrition Counseling. Nutrition Counseling. I love it. So, uh, tell me a little bit, so how did you get to this point? I'd like to hear about your education and your early career. Oh, yeah. So I actually got my, um, bachelor's degree at SIUE and it was just a regular. Biology degree. Mm-hmm. Uh, when I was heading into college, they had recently opened or it was about to open, uh, the College of Pharmacy, SIUE.
Kelly Houston: And I knew I like science, so my mom was like, oh, you should go into pharmacy like that pays well. Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, and I actually did work at a pharmacy throughout college, uh, just like a retail pharmacy. Um, and I loved the people I worked with, but I realized that I did not care to be a pharmacist. But that, that's a hard job I've heard.
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's intense. Yeah. Um, and like certainly different, you know, aspects, hospital versus retail. The [01:29:00] retail is pretty, I mean, I don't wanna say that they're, they're basic pharmacists, but I don't know it like you get used to it, I guess. But yeah, then I talk to hospital pharmacists and it's so different with all the IVs and everything that they do.
And two feedings and, you know. Nutrition aspects. I was talking to them in a different way when I was in, you know, nutrition school too. Yeah. So you done nutrition school and what, but so not, you didn't go to pharmacy school, but that was a potential Correct. That led you to the work in the retail pharmacy?
Mm-hmm. Yep. And then my first job out of college was, um, at Express Scripts in St. Louis. I was an auditor, uh, there and I was like, Hey, this job is fine, but I really. Don't care about it. Uh, what do I wanna be when I grow up? So, um, then that led me to apply to SLU for their nutrition program. And fortunately I was accepted.
I did two years of basically undergrad nutrition courses to like get, 'cause a lot of my courses overlapped with my biology degree anyway, so to get the actual nutrition courses, um, in there. Then I was able to apply [01:30:00] for an internship. Um, so to become a dietician we have to do a 1200 hour. Supervised practice, internship.
Um, and Sue did offer one and fortunately I got a spot there. Right. Um, and then they offered some master's level courses with that as well. Um, during, I guess near the end of the internship, my husband and I realized that we were expecting our first child. So I initially had planned to like, go to like Barnes or some of the, one of the bigger hospitals and like have them pay for my, you know, finishing my master's.
But, um. You know, expecting a baby, I wasn't gonna necessarily be working right away. It changes life a little bit, doesn't it? It does, yeah. Yeah. So, um, which was fine. It was a great time. I just got, after graduation, I got to just kind of rest and take naps and do whatever I wanted to do and whatever I felt like until our little one was born.
Dr. Kate Oland: That's what all pregnant women should be able to do, in my opinion. I know, I know. It was much. I know, I [01:31:00] almost wish it was like my second or third, um, when I had all that free time, but hey, I'll take it where I can get it. Um, yeah, so then I actually had, during the, the pregnancy, I had applied to the Bama by distance Master's program to complete my master's degree.
Kelly Houston: Um, there, so our daughter was born in December and then I started my master's courses like exactly a month after she was born. Oh my gosh. In January, just like one at a time. So it was pretty low key, but still. Yeah. And then I started my first, uh, job at Alt Memorial Hospital, February. So like, it was December, then January, then February, all right, in a row.
Um, so I worked there for about, hmm. I dunno, 15 months. And at then, at that point, one of my old preceptors had started her own business and she had gotten in touch with me and asked if I would cover, um, she was expecting if I could cover her maternity leave and then stay on as a provider for her practice, um, in St.
Louis. And I was more than happy to do so. And um, so you're pretty young, young getting into [01:32:00] private practice back then, I think. Yeah. It's different. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was. She, um, I mean, I don't know, I wanna like toot my own horn, but I guess like having been through college the first time around and then going back for undergrad, um, having the pharmacy experience, she had like mentioned that I seem to have a little bit more of like the medical aspect knowledge than maybe some of the.
Like someone who was in college the first time and still on the younger side without that experience there too. Yeah. You had a little more substance behind you, even though it wasn't exactly a straight track. You had a couple different experiences that helped guide you to where you are. And I do know you, um, professionally, and I know that you really love what you do, which is why I'm so excited to talk to you today.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that helps too. Having those other experiences. It's like, okay, well I know I don't wanna work long-term at. Hospital. Um, so now I know that I don't wanna do that, so what do I wanna do? And that, you know, led me here. So, yeah. So you did [01:33:00] that private practice for a little bit and then I, I mean, that's before I knew you, I know that when we met a couple years ago, you were back over on this side of the river.
Dr. Kate Oland: Um, correct, yeah. Was it a different private practice where you, or how, what was that looking like? Yeah, so I worked, um, at that first practice until I was on maternity leave with my middle kiddo. Mm-hmm. Um, and then actually while I was on maternity leave, I got a call from an OB GYN office and they asked me to, uh, join their team as a dietician, seeing patients like just outpatient counseling, but also specifically working with their, uh, moms who were checking their blood sugars for gestational diabetes control.
Kelly Houston: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Interesting. And I was there for about a half years. Yes. Yeah, I really enjoyed, I mean, it probably didn't hurt that like I was expecting myself when I was finishing my internship. But, um, I had a huge focus on diabetes. Um, the preceptor who initially asked me to join her private practice, the rotation that we did together was at an outpatient diabetes center with, um, [01:34:00] it was St.
Anthony's now as part of Mercy, I think, over there in South County. Um, so yeah, I really liked diabetes that I liked, you know. Moms that I liked, you know, babies and all that kind of stuff too. So it was really perfect and I think it probably helped you to be like more empathetic and interrelated with your patients, or do you prefer clients?
Dr. Kate Oland: Uh, I usually say clients typically, but I'll say, you know, patients kind of just comes out now and then, but yeah. Clients, yeah, more so. Yeah. So your clients, I mean, when you were a new mom and working with new moms, I mean it just, when you're on that same level, I feel like that is a special bond. Yeah, I think so too.
Kelly Houston: It's like you've been in their shoes, maybe not quite exactly, but like pretty darn close. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I know I always appreciated when I was having babies, having some people who had gone through the experience sharing with me, but it's like, I don't know it. I dunno, I think we hear that a lot as a mom, you hear a lot like, oh, it goes so fast, I, I know I'm living it.
Dr. Kate Oland: Right? [01:35:00] So when you're like able to meet people and when you're at where they're at, that can be really helpful. But I mean, it's only such a short lived period of time, uh, that you can do that. So, um, so that's, I think, the part of the story where I met you a couple years ago and you've bounced around a little bit since then, but you are now opening your own practice.
That's so exciting. Yes, yes. Yeah. I'm so excited. And I have you, you know, to thank for a big part of that too, so. Oh gosh. Yeah. I really appreciate that. Well, thank you. I did nothing. I did nothing other than just start conversations, which is kind of like how I got, uh, inspired to start a podcast because I I love that.
Thank you. I love that. I didn't even know that I had anything to do with this, um, with you starting your own practice, but I think this is where we're gonna change. Healthcare is if more of us are empowered to go out there and be able to create our own practice and take care of people the way we want. I think for those of you who aren't in healthcare that are listening, let me tell you like the constraints put on healthcare providers right now.
[01:36:00] Is heavy. It is heavy. We are being told how many people to see, how many units to charge, which units pay the best from insurance. And that was just against what I was taught. And I actually, I didn't realize you had some time at St. Louis University also. Mm-hmm. You're a daughter of St. Louis University Forever, as am I.
Um, so that's kind, that's fun. 'cause I, listen, I really loved my time there. They, you know, and I, I teach there now too. Um, but I think. We were taught how to do patient care the way it should be done. Mm-hmm. Yep. I agree. But then when you get in the real world, it is eye opening what we do and what we're being asked to do.
Yep. Yeah. Yep. I mean, that's why I'm where I'm at. That's why I have my private practice, I suspect. Is that, I mean, does that call to you as well? Yeah, yeah, I think so too. Just, yeah, being able to. See people and also take [01:37:00] care of myself in a way that doesn't feel like I'm burning out so I can be there for my clients.
Exactly. Because my job, before I started my own practice, as much as I loved still being a physical therapist, it was sucking my soul. 'cause I, because I still cared. I think people who have to survive in a healthcare field, there's a phenomenon. People, it's not that they don't care, but they have to force themselves to not care.
Or find a way to cope that maybe isn't ideal. To stay in that high stress environment. It's, it's hard right now. Yeah. Yes. Well, so, okay. So one of the things I'm really excited to talk to you about is I actually, I have never had an appointment with a nutritionist or dietician, and I think that's kind of funny actually.
Um, because I mean, like I claim that I helped coach other people on their food intake. I will say I had one class in my doctorate level class, I had a nutrition class where we had to track our food and that blew my mind. Um. And then I also have a passion for [01:38:00] learning about nutrition. Um, so if someone contacts you and comes in for an appointment, what should they expect?
Kelly Houston: Oh, great question. So usually, like for that first appointment, it is a lot of, you know, intake and gathering information. But we'll often start with like, I. You know, what brought them in and the first place, um, when I would cover for outpatient at the hospital I worked at, you know, all those years ago, I'd say, oh, what brings you in today?
And people would say, oh, my wife, or, oh my doctor. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that's another reason I like, you know, actual outpatient is like, usually they have some desire to actually come in, which is super helpful. Yeah. Um, so, you know, what brings 'em in? Did they get a new diagnosis? Have they just tried all the things And nothing is really seeming to like stick or work or help them, you know, achieve the health outcomes that they're looking for.
Um, maybe food just feels like overwhelming and they just wanna get kind of a, you know, some advice like, am I doing okay with this? And, um, I'll say like, okay, kind of in quotes, it's 'cause I like to use their, the client's definition of like, what is [01:39:00] success? What is okay? You know, again, in quotes. Yeah, it's, everyone has different goals, I'm guessing for sure.
Dr. Kate Oland: There's caloric intake, blood sugar, uh, weight, body weight, BMI, I mean, am I on the right track? Is that what you hear? A lot of goals are. Yeah, sometimes too, it's like GI symptoms. Mm-hmm. Like they are super bloated or have a lot of issues with constipation or diarrhea or that sort of thing. So helping them just like feel better if they can go out with friends.
Kelly Houston: Not to worry about like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to like use the bathroom 15 times. And like I, let me just also say nutrition can't fix everything. If there's something like Crohn's disease or I'll ulcerative colitis, like I can. Tips and pointers, but like I can't, Nutri cannot cure that, you know, alone.
It can help, but it can't cure it. Right. And listen, I feel like again, you and I are on the same page. Like there's a time and a place for medicine. It is there for a reason and we totally, we can benefit from it. But I like to tell people, you know, as a physical therapist, movement is medicine. But also I've been telling them for a long [01:40:00] time that food can be your medicine too.
Dr. Kate Oland: Mm-hmm. If we just start thinking about food as a way to fuel. To medicate our bodies. It changes the game a little bit. Yes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So you bring up IBS and, um, I know this is, that's a, I feel like I've heard that diagnosis more recently and something else I've been hearing a lot about. And I'm really truly, we didn't plan this other than, you know, I know that there's a connection between IBS and the gut microbiome, but.
That, that's all I told Kelly I wanted to talk about today. Like, hey, this is something I'm interested in, but what, what is the connection between that very common diagnosis and what's happening in the gut? Yeah, so it usually can be brought on by some sort of like dysbiosis. So like either there's too much of something.
Kelly Houston: Um, there can, there's oftentimes like issues with breaking down different types of sugars or carbohydrates, so like. Lactose intolerance can be its own like single thing. But lactose is [01:41:00] also, um, one of the, what they call FODMAPs, which is an acronym for fermentable, oh gosh. I'll have to go through in my head.
Dr. Kate Oland: Mm-hmm. Oligo Die and monosaccharides and polyols, which are different types of carbohydrates and sugars found, say that in foods that four times fast. Yeah. Yeah. I think FODMAP is perfectly acceptable. Yeah. Um, yeah. But I'm sorry, so you, you said all those words, but what does that mean? Yeah, so there are different types of carbs that are found in foods that the stu or the, not the stomach necessarily, but that the body just either is not super effective at breaking down or doesn't have enough of the substances it needs to break down.
Kelly Houston: So, like we said, lactose intolerance is a super common one. That can be just a single anything by itself, but it can also be part of IBS. So then that's where we, we would use something like, um, lactase enzyme, which you might know over the counter as like lactate. There's generic brands as well, and that can help like, break down the stuff, you know, in the GI tract so that we don't have to worry about not having enough of our own lactase inside our bodies to break it down and then [01:42:00] minimize the symptoms of that.
Dr. Kate Oland: Let's circle back to like, okay, so someone comes in and they share their goals with you maybe, right? Yep. Okay. And so talking about some of these triggering foods might be something that you do. Um, yeah. What are other common conversations that you're having? Yeah. With that first appointment, we're going through a lot of stuff.
Kelly Houston: Umhmm we're going through like how is their sleep and what is their activity like, and how is their ener energy levels like, do they get tired every day after lunch or, um, maybe they wake up feeling fine, but like. Four hours after they're awake, they feel like they just have to take a nap or whatever.
Like, we're looking at all of that. Um, like food is energy. So we wanna see like, how is energy presenting? Is it, does it seem to kind of add up or line up? Um, if they're an avid exercise, are they fueling enough to power through the movements that they're doing each day? And to recover from that, um, we're gonna talk about stress.
Do they have ways that they can, like de-stress is their life just in a spot right now where it's like. [01:43:00] You know, I know it's like back to school time. Like if it's maybe a teacher, maybe they've had like their first kid that's gonna be in daycare for the first time and like that's stressful and then like they're going into a new classroom with new kids, you know, that they've never met before.
I mean, that can be stressful. Um, and stress is not bad. Like we need some degree of stress in our lives, but when it gets so much, you know, it definitely can take a toll, not only on just like the way that our hormones and like body systems are acting, but also on our food choices. Like do we have time to.
Cook food. Do we need to grab things out? Do we totally forget to eat at all and then we're getting headaches and that sort of thing too? Yeah, I mean this is, we're not just talking about the physical body, we're talking about the emotional, energetic body. 'cause think about how your emotions drive your choices behind food.
Dr. Kate Oland: It's all connected. And you know, you talked about sleep. I'm so glad you talked about that. I, this is, I actually, I was a health coach. We, he, we weren't supposed to call ourselves that. He had like a patented name. But anyways, I was basically a health coach. Um, and I took multiple nutrition classes [01:44:00] and I just remember being shocked at one of the statistics that talked about, okay, if you don't get enough sleep and it's not, and it just being slightly, slightly sleep deprived.
Has a huge impact on the number of calories that you're going to be eating the next day. Yep. And it's not necessarily conscious, correct. Yeah, but it's like if we don't get that internal energy from sleep, we need external energy through food. But also we just, you know, there's like those studies that it's like, oh, if you're tired and it's capacity, it's the same as like being legally drunk on the road, like with driving.
Kelly Houston: So it's like we would just also might not be like totally. Noticing our body signals of hunger and fullness and that sort of thing too. That's something I've been talking about a lot lately with people is how there are s like endless amounts of external distractions distracting us from what's going on on the inside.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yes. Yep. Yeah. And if you don't take care of that inside man, it's hard to take care of the outside. For sure. Yeah. [01:45:00] Um, okay, so I did wanna pick your brain a little bit. I've been hearing about the gut microbiome and I actually, I watched a Netflix documentary to prepare for this. It was called, um, what was it called?
Hack Your Health. Um, secrets of the Microbiome or Secrets of Your Gut, or something like that. And it was really interesting, but it was also. I found it interesting and, but consumable even my, I had my kid watch it with me, you know, it, it was a very, it was cute, um, but I learned a lot from it. But I don't think I, before watching it, I didn't realize, like why it was important to have a varied diet.
And I think that's what I took from this the most was, okay, you know, your food choices are real important, but also making sure to make. Different choices, like varied choices to help fuel that biome. Can you explain a little bit, uh, why that is, why that variety is so important? Yeah. Well, one thing I'll tell my kids and like [01:46:00] with, with kids, I mean, it can be such a loaded question with like, is this food healthy or whatever, like.
Kelly Houston: And certainly I want my kids to have a good relationship with all types of different foods. So the answer that I'll tell them or that I'll tell you know, clients when they ask is that the healthiest thing that you can do is eat a variety of foods and not just for the microbiome, although that is a huge part of it, but just for like all of our body systems, like we can, you know, I feel like chicken and broccoli get these like health halos kind of around them and it's like, well, if you only ate chicken.
You would have many nutrient deficiencies. If you like broccoli, you would have many nutrient deficiencies. We need a wide variety, but even like in the group of say, vegetables, like we have our leafy greens, we have our, you know, orange, you know, peppers and carrots and that sort of thing. We have like red, yellow, we have all these different colors.
All the colors are different types of antioxidants, which are super beneficial in different ways for our. Health aside from the fact that it's just a vegetable with fiber and all that good stuff too. Yeah. Vitamins, minerals, all that kinda stuff. Remind me, why are antioxidants good for us? So [01:47:00] they stop the process of oxidation, which is like, um, the term can be used in like, I guess a few different ways, but like it can, if we're getting pollutants from like the air, I mean there's pollution in the air.
Pollution, uh, secondhand smoke. Um, if we have inflammation in our bodies, they can help kind of, they won't maybe always take it away, but they can help minimize it and, uh, make it more manageable in that way too. So they're really helpful in that. Now I feel like there's something in the back of my brain saying that antioxidants can be potentially helpful for preventing development of cancer.
Yeah. Yeah. 'cause those are those cells. Yeah. Can get, um, like oxidated and that's what can kind of start the tumor growth. And like, you know, um, eating of a, you know, a diet high in fruits and vegetables or foods with ha high antioxidant levels is definitely beneficial in preventing many things. Heart disease, you know, different types of cancers and that sort of thing as well.
Um, and then like, again, that being said, if someone would develop cancer, taking a macro dose [01:48:00] of antioxidant supplements. Most likely not, you know, be sure to talk to your doctor about that sort of thing. Right. But like in the prevention stage? Yeah. Especially if you have a higher risk of different cancers, and especially if we're talking food, like highly processed meats have been correlated with higher rates of colon cancer.
Dr. Kate Oland: Mm-hmm. Um, so if you do find that like, you know, every now and then you're wanting some salami or whatever, and I mean, like it does, you know, taste great, um. Can we balance it out with some antioxidants, maybe reduce the risk, you know, in the moment, and then continue with the higher antioxidant foods, even during the times that we're not consuming those foods, that might put us at a bit higher risk of, of developing different types of cancers.
So are you saying if I wrap my salami around a carrot, does that help balance out the oxidation rate? I mean, we can hope it does. Okay. I Okay. I I'll take that as a yes. Yeah, I'll take that as a yes. All right. Well, so, um, we talked a little bit about the gut and we talked about what people do when they come to see [01:49:00] you.
Now you, earlier in our conversation, you mentioned a word that I really think is so common and also as sad that it's associated so commonly with food, which is shame. Do you have a lot of conversations about that? Oh yes. I would say that the tissues in my office are one of the most. Highly utilized things in the office.
Kelly Houston: Um, when I was working in the OB GYN office, I was only there for a few weeks before I realized, okay, I'm gonna need some education on disordered eating and potentially eating disorders. And certainly not every patient that I saw there, you know, had eating disorder by any means, but I think especially as.
Like people and female bodies, there's a lot of stuff pushed at us. Mm-hmm. That is, and not to say that other, you know, genders don't have that as well, but, um, seems to be sometimes especially targeted towards, uh, female presenting and, gosh, I [01:50:00] mean, just. If they're eating so little, sometimes I kind of wondered how they didn't pass out just walking down the hallway to my office or just the fear.
Or they would eat, you know, again, not to demonize foods, but like, say an Oreo for example. And then it's like, oh, but then like, you know, it was so bad, like really using these like morality based words. Mm-hmm. Um, with food. So I did, um, undergo some training for disordered eating. Mm-hmm. And eating disorders as well to help with that.
You know, like with shame I got into nutrition 'cause I love. I want other people to love it too. Yeah. It's a, listen, it's such a huge part of our lives. It's what brings us together. It's a huge source of enjoyment. Yes. But very commonly there, I have found that shame. And as a person with a recovered, um, eating disorder, like I've had to really reframe my perspective on food too.
Dr. Kate Oland: Have, and, and it's not like it's cured done over with. I have to constantly kinda reframe. Um. My relationship with food, and I think during different [01:51:00] stages of life there are different things that get triggered also. Mm-hmm. Now, do you think that shame is a barrier? Do you think some people are just not gonna even look for help because they feel ashamed?
Kelly Houston: Oh, for sure. And I think that could be true for, you know, any, anything, whether it's like food or health related or even just like, you know. Painting your shutters that have gotten all like dingy. It's like, oh, I don't want anyone to see, you know, how bad they've gotten or whatever. Um, but yeah, I think shame is a huge, a huge barrier.
And so that's definitely something that I want, you know, my clients to know or people who might be interested in like, oh, like I feel like I could maybe use some help. 'cause most of the time if you feel like I could maybe use some help in terms of like a shame or a disordered eating aspect, you probably could.
Use the help. And that's okay. We only help with different things at, at different times. Um, like I try to make my office as much as of a shame-free zone as possible. Like I will never [01:52:00] judge you. One of the biggest things that I see consistently with clients who maybe don't even have any type of.
Disordered eating necessarily is like, if I like, oh, what about vegetables? Like, are there vegetables you like? And they'll say like, oh yeah, I eat carrots. And then they'll say with ranch and they like pull forward. Like saying ranch was such a bad thing. Like, uh, like yeah. Um, it's like, well first of all we're the Midwest, like you can have ranch.
Yeah, sometimes, but like also fat is helpful for absorbing fat soluble vitamins like vitamin A that's very high in carrots. So there's definitely a role for any food. And you know, I hope that my clients. Can see at some point that all foods can fit, you know, on healthy diet. Yeah, I agree. And I mean, what I'm hanging on to is the words that you said that you want clients to know, that there is no judgment in your office.
Dr. Kate Oland: Mm-hmm. Yep. Because I, that's a conversation I've had with many clients along the way. I wish I would've done this sooner. I, you know, I, for whatever reason, there's something in the way, whether it's fear or shame, or a combination of the two, but, [01:53:00] you know, and, and asking for help is hard for almost anybody.
Yeah, but I mean, you are passionate about your job because you get to help people. Yes. And also why I am passionate about mine, but we do it in different ways. Yeah. Yeah. I love if a client can come to me and say like, Hey, my cholesterol is back to normal levels. Or, Hey, I was able to go on this vacation and like I didn't have a panic attack about eating out at every meal.
Kelly Houston: Or, Hey, um, I can go through my days without like a giant stomachache. At the end of the day and like, feel okay enough to like play with my kids and go to their soccer game and yeah. I mean, that is what I live for. Yeah. Well, what do you have to say to someone like me who's like a food nutrition enthusiast?
Dr. Kate Oland: Um, I, I have no credentials other than I maybe a couple classes under, um, in my resume. I mean, how do I know when to refer to you versus like how to help guide people with their food choices? Oh. Oh, good [01:54:00] question. Mm-hmm. Well, I think, and it might be kind of similar, like, um, so, you know, people ask me about like, physical activity and I can give them, you know, kind of broad strokes, like it's beneficial.
Kelly Houston: Um, you know, like, where are you at now? Are there ways that we can make like slight improvements? But like, you know, I can and don't know how to like, give them a, you know, specialized like exercise plan or like, I don't know what exercises might put them at risk of injury. You know, if they have like a bum knee or a shoulder that.
Gets wonky or whatever, like, so, and I always make sure to give them my card. That's Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, no, that'll be so close. I'll have to get some, um, yeah. To have if, if Marshalls have in the office already. Yeah. Um, yeah, so, you know, broad strokes, like you said, increasing variety. Um, that's sort of thing I think would be good, like getting adequate food.
Like we need enough food to like make the hormones that help the GI tract work effectively. Ooh, right there. That, that right there, the chemistry. Of [01:55:00] nutrition that, so what, what you just said. I don't know anything about that. So, we'll, that sounds like really interesting, um, right there, like using food to help balance your endocrine or your hormonal chemistry.
Dr. Kate Oland: That sounds fascinating. I could use some of that. Yeah. Yeah. Or you know, we, if we don't have enough like building blocks through food, then we don't have like, literally the, the essential pieces to like make. You know, the hormones, like hormones are proteins. We need protein, we need adequate calories. If we don't have, you know, adequate calories, we won't make the hormones that we need to like have adequate estrogen or all those different things too.
Kelly Houston: So, yeah. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Definitely makes a huge role. Any other, um, tips or tricks? How to get the right client in for how I can help you get the right client in your. Ooh. Um, well, so I would say that my, oh, I see many health conditions including just like any sort of like lab work, you know, um, high blood pressure, high cholesterol.
I would say my areas that I really focus a lot in are, um, insulin [01:56:00] resistant. So that could include pre-diabetes, flat out, like diagnosed diabetes, um, insulin resistance. If someone like just gets their insulin levels checked and it's, um, high, then like I'll definitely see them. PCOS kind of falls into that group as well.
Dr. Kate Oland: That's polycystic ovarian syndrome syndrome. Thank you. There it is. Okay, great. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I would've never thought that a referral to nutrition, but that makes sense because if your hormones aren't right, and you know if someone's suffering from that condition, it's very, very uncomfortable, painful, life altering.
They're gonna come at it. From all angles, including dietician. Yeah, for sure. And then also with, um, high insulin and PCOS, we often then can see episodes of what can appear to look like binge eating. Mm-hmm. And like it may or may not be actual like diagnosed binge eating disorder. Mm-hmm. Um, but so then binge eating also whether or not someone has insulin resistance is an area that I've had specialized training in and a lot of experience with.
Kelly Houston: Um, and then from the [01:57:00] more, I guess like feeling well side, I work a lot with GI. Related. Mm-hmm. Um, issues as well. So, bloating, diarrhea, constipation, um, if someone has a new diagnosis of like celiac or that sort of thing, or different food intolerances, um, as well. Like that's one of the things I like, I want people to feel good about eating and not be scared and not be Yeah.
You know, worried about it. So. Yeah. Yeah. Those are definitely things I love. Do you get to do, can you order blood work and tests? I cannot. Okay. Unfortunately. So you have to work with the physician. Physician and, yeah. Um. I may have some, uh, benefit at my new office as well with um Oh, with a chiropractor?
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I believe he can order, um, blood work. I'm so excited for you and Marshall to be sharing space together. For those of you listening, my friend Kelly, I set her up professionally with my friend Marshall, who's a chiropractor. So she will be working out of his office. Well, we will probably talk to Marshall at some point in time on the podcast.
He's one of my [01:58:00] nerdy buddies who likes to talk anatomy with me all the time. Um, but back to Kelly. So, okay. Does someone have to have a prescription to come from their physician to come see you or a referral? Not necessarily. So I would say like in terms of, um, the insurance companies, United Healthcare tends to be the one that they might be like, Hey, is there a referral for this?
Kelly Houston: But it's typically pretty easy to get through the doctors. A lot of times if they're cash pay, they definitely don't need one. Mm-hmm. If it's Blue Cross Aetna or Cigna, they typically don't need one either. Yeah. Are you set up to accept any insurance? In the process. Oh, it's a long process. Yeah. And I have researched it and I will, I have not taken on that process myself.
Dr. Kate Oland: So hats off to you for even trying. Yeah, I do have a wait list if anyone is listening now, if you're interested in an appointment, but wanna wait till I'm in with insurances. I do have a link on my scheduling page where you can fill out your info and then once I'm in with your insurance company, I can contact you.
We are gonna put the link to your scheduling page in the show notes. So if that's something [01:59:00] that's calling to you, my friend Kelly is working out of Glen Carbon, Illinois. Um, and if you want to have a conversation with her or get on her schedule, there will be links to that in the notes. Um, so let me see.
I just wanna make sure I asked all the questions about that people might wanna know about coming to see you. Um. If they're cash pay, then they don't necessarily need to have an order. But if they're wanting to submit to their insurance, then yes, that is something that is important to have. 'cause a lot of insurances require that for reimbursement, even if it's not legally required by your state's practice act, that stinking insurance runs the world whether we like it or not.
Um, and then do you, how many visits do you typically see a client for? Well, so the first one can be a lot of info. Like hopefully if we get through, um, you know, the, if the client feels like they've told me enough of their story for us to kind of move forward, then we get to a bit of an education piece and some goal setting in that first one.
Kelly Houston: But sometimes it kind of does take the whole first appointment to kinda get through the background info. Mm-hmm. [02:00:00] Um, so I would say typically like three is a good minimum. And it kind of just depends if they're like, Hey, I just got diagnosed with high cholesterol, but it's not like that high, but like, I don't want it to.
Get higher and then like three months later they get their blood checked and it's like back to normal. They're like, okay, I got it. Like, that's fine. Mm-hmm. If was something more longstanding, like GI symptoms or PCOS or um, more of like an insulin resistance type aspect, then we might meet for longer. I mean, I've had clients that I've seen every two weeks for, you know, a good part of a year.
Dr. Kate Oland: Yeah. Plus, so it, it, yeah. It really depends on the client's comfort level. And now that you have your own private practice, you get a lot more say in that, don't you? Yes. Yep. Yes. Having that autonomy is such a beautiful thing. Well, anything else you need, any potential listeners or potential clients to know about your practice?
Ooh, I don't think so. Just, yeah, I'm, it's New England Carbon and I'm excited to, to be here and be talking to Kate today. Yes. I'm so excited we made this happen. So listen, my friend Kelly, if you guys ever have any food related questions, please [02:01:00] give her a call and let her know. Kelly, thank you so much.
This has been so much fun. Thank you, Kate. Glad to be here.